Back to the [Longest Night Festival](/Longest_Night_Festival)
http://etherpad.com/6F5GOTsS9J
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### Participants
- [Brandon CS Sanders](/Brandon_CS_Sanders)
- [Ben Sibelman](/Ben) ... convener
- [Keith Lofstrom](http://keithl.com)
### Thoughts on what to discuss
- Scary nuts are worse than harmless nuts
- Can we not be perceived as nuts?
- We live in a policitical climate in which you are expected to perceive half the world as nuts
- It seems important to understand that fear of being outcast
- Do they think we're nuts? We coulds ask and they lie ... we'll never know with 100%
- What we're really worried are about the actions they might take
- Deep space nine ... only judge people by what they do
- Whose opinions about us matter?
- What do the people we will have want to have attracted think about us.
- There are people we want to attract to join us
- And then there are people we want as neighbors
- *Parable of the Talents* ... Shedding Acorn was needed
### Discussion
#### Examples of groups that are quasi-religious and have problems
- Landmark Education
- Exercises within the course include how to deal with fears like fear of being an outcast
- Rajnishis in Oregon
- Some of them *were* scary
- But had good places in Portland to get vegetarian food
- Their problem was trying to politically control their surroundings, and trying to swing an election through illegal means
- Saint-Simonians, technology- and future-focused religion and intentional community
- Started trying to dig the Suez Canal
- But it took someone with a different kind of big-picture view to finish it
- Problems included belief in sexual promiscuity
#### General observations
- People look scary when they seem to put their values above basic civilized values
- People worry when their kids might get involved in a group that prevents them from being successful and/or ruins their lives
- Also, religions (and rockets) are a source of power, and people fear the potential for power to "run amuck"
- Keith: Catholic priests' celibacy helps avoid fear of sexual power
#### What if SolSeed was a religion (as well as other things)?
- Religion should be an outgrowth of mysticism (which is a mythical embellishment of deep truth), not just invented
- Keith: Even in the former case, it usually goes downhill from the mystic roots
- Always ends up with a few leaders and many followers (who want to be followers)
- Possible exceptions: Unitarians, Quakers
- Religions are usually intolerant of each other
- [Brandon](/Brandon) originally didn't want SolSeed to be a religion
- During college he became a militant atheist and was in conflict with his parents, even though they share core values
- Unfortunately, the superficial ends up trumping that common core
- Keith: especially in politics, where all Rep vs. Dem activism is anti-American in the sense of destroying the idea of common purpose
- In not being a religion you give up access to the mystical tradition, the experience of being one with others
- This may be frightening, but in order to accomplish any collective project you must give up some of your individuality
- The ideal organization would work because it has the right people who each have the skills and desire to fill a specific role, but this rarely happens