[[The Upward Spiral]] is an hour-long video by [[Paul Krafel]], describing a novel way to look at the natural world in terms of [[flow]]. The full version is available on [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7159959880810159488&ei=bSRBS9nrFoeYqAOR3fnNDg&q=%22upward+spiral%22+paul+krafel Google video], as is a [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1452672721626540278&ei=bSRBS9nrFoeYqAOR3fnNDg&q=upward+spiral 40-minute edit] by [[Arthur Brock]].
== Discussion at [[Sol 2009]] ==
=== Participants ===
* [[Paul Krafel]]
* [[Alysia Krafel]]
* [[Arthur Brock]]
* [[Brandon CS Sanders]]
* [[Kim Edwards]]
* [[Ben Sibelman]]
* Steve Sibelman
=== Examples of upward vs. downward spirals ===
* [[Art]]: Main St. vs. Wal-Mart's "gully economy"
** When people's local rural economy gets too weak to support the Wal-Mart, it moves out, leaving nothing
* Paul: Education: making kids passive vs. responsible
* Politics: where are the "headwaters?"
** Bottom up: school boards and city councils
** Top down: President is at the headwaters
** Alysia: our goal should be to act in our own spheres of influence
* Paul: divorce between science and religion is a big gully
** Or there might be three entities involved, the third being magic/enchantment
=== Advantages of fast-moving civilization ===
* [[Brandon]]: We're not just wasting natural resources, we're making an investment
** Need to figure out how to make it "pay back"
** [[Art]]: We've built a nervous system for [[Gaia]]
** Steve: Can we "harness" existing consumerism to move in a better direction, or do we have to retreat?
** [[Brandon]]: People are already reconsidering what it means to be happy
=== Lessons for individuals ===
* Paul: Start by studying the power within ourselves, making our inner energy flow more and be more visible
* Author of book ''Small is Beautiful'': We shouldn't be optimists ''or'' pessimists about the future; just do the work
** Quote from the movie: "Don't let your current understanding prevent you from doing this work"
* [[Kim]]: Example of individual "upstream" action: went to a local college's council and brought up the idea of benefits for domestic parnters of college employees
** The effects rippled up to the state chancellor
* Defining "what's right" is a never-ending process
** Increasing possibilities makes it more likely that a "right" path will be available
== Discussion at [[Seed 2011]] ==
* Gus: Acting high in the drainage = acting locally
** Brandon: If you act in many local places rather than at the national level, you will be more effective
*** Ben: Until you're exposed as a secretive group that funds a vast conspiracy
** Ben: Or you can act in one locality and have [[kindred]] in other localities working for the same things
*** Gus: This is made far easier by modern telecommunications
* Brandon: Growth is fine as long as it's growth in possibilities, not growth in consumption
* Conversations where you have to give up lots of things you value in order to "stop being wrong" are deeply unattractive
** Even if we're aligned with the values of the person who's asking us
** Gus: Silverton People for Peace don't define themselves as anti-war
*** Even the most strident war hawk will eventually realize that we can't afford empire anymore--it's not effective
*** "High in the drainage" = community security
**** Brandon: Seeing the world as a community instead of a dangerous place
**** Gus: Harder in a big city, where everyone locks their doors, reasonably enough since larger populations include larger criminal populations