Back to the [[Longest Night Festival]]
http://etherpad.com/6F5GOTsS9J
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== Participants ==
* [[Brandon CS Sanders]]
* [[Ben Sibelman]] ... convener
* [[Keith Lofstrom]]
== Thoughts on what to discuss ==
* Scary nuts are worse than harmless nuts
* Can we not be perceived as nuts?
* We live in a policitical climate in which you are expected to perceive half the world as nuts
* It seems important to understand that fear of being outcast
* Do they think we're nuts? We coulds ask and they lie ... we'll never know with 100%
* What we're really worried are about the actions they might take
** Deep space nine ... only judge people by what they do
* Whose opinions about us matter?
** What do the people we will have want to have attracted think about us.
** There are people we want to attract to join us
** And then there are people we want as neighbors
* ''Parable of the Talents'' ... Shedding Acorn was needed
== Discussion ==
=== Examples of groups that are quasi-religious and have problems ===
* Landmark Education
** Exercises within the course include how to deal with fears like fear of being an outcast
* Rajnishis in Oregon
** Some of them ''were'' scary
** But had good places in Portland to get vegetarian food
** Their problem was trying to politically control their surroundings, and trying to swing an election through illegal means
* Saint-Simonians, technology- and future-focused religion and intentional community
** Started trying to dig the Suez Canal
*** But it took someone with a different kind of big-picture view to finish it
** Problems included belief in sexual promiscuity
=== General observations ===
* People look scary when they seem to put their values above basic civilized values
* People worry when their kids might get involved in a group that prevents them from being successful and/or ruins their lives
* Also, religions (and rockets) are a source of power, and people fear the potential for power to "run amuck"
** Keith: Catholic priests' celibacy helps avoid fear of sexual power
=== What if SolSeed was a religion (as well as other things)? ===
* Religion should be an outgrowth of mysticism (which is a mythical embellishment of deep truth), not just invented
** Keith: Even in the former case, it usually goes downhill from the mystic roots
*** Always ends up with a few leaders and many followers (who want to be followers)
*** Possible exceptions: Unitarians, Quakers
* Religions are usually intolerant of each other
* [[Brandon]] originally didn't want SolSeed to be a religion
** During college he became a militant atheist and was in conflict with his parents, even though they share core values
** Unfortunately, the superficial ends up trumping that common core
*** Keith: especially in politics, where all Rep vs. Dem activism is anti-American in the sense of destroying the idea of common purpose
* In not being a religion you give up access to the mystical tradition, the experience of being one with others
** This may be frightening, but in order to accomplish any collective project you must give up some of your individuality
** The ideal organization would work because it has the right people who each have the skills and desire to fill a specific role, but this rarely happens